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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 3:28:59 GMT
With Pokémon design, whilst we obviously must spend a lot of time looking at the specifics, looking at the bigger picture is important to, in many ways. Firstly, we must have enough Pokémon which can work at any point on the offensive to defensive spectrum - from offensive top tier threats, to tough-to-break walls. Secondly, we want (if for nothing else the sake of fun) to include lots of Pokémon of every type! We need to balance 3 to 4 competing forces: the need for single-typed Pokémon (if nothing else it's good flavour and who can call it Pokémon without a bulky water anyway?), the need to include as much exciting variety as possible (for fun's sake of course!), the need to keep the amount of Pokémon within reason (both to reduce redundancy, make sure everything is competitively noteworthy enough, and to reduce the burden on memory for people getting into this). A starting proposal is to have about 60 Pokémon, but this number is definitely able to fluctuate to our whims, but we must remember why such a number exists in the first place if we want to change it in any way. Another point is the hazard-game. We need suitable versatility in setters and clearers of all the hazards, as well as enough in terms of numbers. I'm sure we've all had experiences of metagames where the balance of the hazard game didn't feel too great.
So overall this is pretty central to the project, so I guess the question this thread can pose is: how do we apply these concepts?
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 3:37:00 GMT
So how do we go about starting? Do we start with a fire-water-grass and build outwards, how did we do it last time?
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 3:42:19 GMT
So how do we go about starting? Do we start with a fire-water-grass and build outwards, how did we do it last time? I think Fire-Water-Grass is actually a good idea! It's a recognisable and repeated concept in the Pokémon series, your Fire/Water/Grass type starters, with 525-535 BP total, and it provides a good things to compare with. Furthermore, there's also an early-game Bug-type, early-game Normal-type, and early-game Flying-type, which are all concepts that could be worked with, however I think that it's only worth keeping the FWG idea since the rest can become too stat-total dependent and it's not so consistent across generations. The FWG starters should of course have Torrent/Overgrow/Blaze as abilities.
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 3:51:24 GMT
So how do we go about starting? Do we start with a fire-water-grass and build outwards, how did we do it last time? I think Fire-Water-Grass is actually a good idea! It's a recognisable and repeated concept in the Pokémon series, your Fire/Water/Grass type starters, with 525-535 BP total, and it provides a good things to compare with. Furthermore, there's also an early-game Bug-type, early-game Normal-type, and early-game Flying-type, which are all concepts that could be worked with, however I think that it's only worth keeping the FWG idea since the rest can become too stat-total dependent and it's not so consistent across generations. The FWG starters should of course have Torrent/Overgrow/Blaze as abilities. Okay so after that how do we expand, how did we determine the first 10 or so mons in the first iteration of bam?
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 3:59:13 GMT
I think Fire-Water-Grass is actually a good idea! It's a recognisable and repeated concept in the Pokémon series, your Fire/Water/Grass type starters, with 525-535 BP total, and it provides a good things to compare with. Furthermore, there's also an early-game Bug-type, early-game Normal-type, and early-game Flying-type, which are all concepts that could be worked with, however I think that it's only worth keeping the FWG idea since the rest can become too stat-total dependent and it's not so consistent across generations. The FWG starters should of course have Torrent/Overgrow/Blaze as abilities. Okay so after that how do we expand, how did we determine the first 10 or so mons in the first iteration of bam? I don't remember D: but I'm sure this time around we might have a lot of people with a lot of ideas, so.. we'll see how it goes. What I'll say is: no rush! Let's give this time. I think we really want moves and items sorted before we have a single Pokémon complete anyway.
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 5:27:41 GMT
Okay so after that how do we expand, how did we determine the first 10 or so mons in the first iteration of bam? I don't remember D: but I'm sure this time around we might have a lot of people with a lot of ideas, so.. we'll see how it goes. What I'll say is: no rush! Let's give this time. I think we really want moves and items sorted before we have a single Pokémon complete anyway. Okay I'll see if I can grab some people back from Smogon, you see if can grab the BAM guys on PP and bring them over. We need more then 2 peoples opinion for these things.
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 11:11:51 GMT
I don't remember D: but I'm sure this time around we might have a lot of people with a lot of ideas, so.. we'll see how it goes. What I'll say is: no rush! Let's give this time. I think we really want moves and items sorted before we have a single Pokémon complete anyway. Okay I'll see if I can grab some people back from Smogon, you see if can grab the BAM guys on PP and bring them over. We need more then 2 peoples opinion for these things. I'm sure DG9 will bring a bunch too. We also have Locus Pokus, which is merely a cool name and the Bug/Ghost typing so far (all name credit to 8-bit).
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 14:09:22 GMT
Okay I'll see if I can grab some people back from Smogon, you see if can grab the BAM guys on PP and bring them over. We need more then 2 peoples opinion for these things. I'm sure DG9 will bring a bunch too. We also have Locus Pokus, which is merely a cool name and the Bug/Ghost typing so far (all name credit to 8-bit). Yeah it would be a crime to scrap that mon completely.
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Post by Enigami on Mar 7, 2016 15:24:17 GMT
For first 10: Fire Starter, Water Starter, Grass Starter, Early Game Bird, Early Game Normal, Early Game Bug, Pika Clone, Obligatory Cave Rock-type, Non-starter Water, Pseudo-legendary Dragon
I think that'd work for a start, decent variety of pokes and covers all the basics. You could even make a functional (albeit very limited) Pokemon game out of that.
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 16:49:33 GMT
For first 10: Fire Starter, Water Starter, Grass Starter, Early Game Bird, Early Game Normal, Early Game Bug, Pika Clone, Obligatory Cave Rock-type, Non-starter Water, Pseudo-legendary Dragon I think that'd work for a start, decent variety of pokes and covers all the basics. You could even make a functional (albeit very limited) Pokemon game out of that. To clear things up I should mention what BAM is mainly going to be a showdown mod but modding a ROM wouldn't be impossible. I can't tell which prospective your expansion pitch is coming from.
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Post by Enigami on Mar 7, 2016 17:19:55 GMT
I know that BAM is a Showdown mod, my suggestion is to use what would be the bare-bones for a Pokemon game/romhack simply as a starting point. Things like BST and such would of course still be focused on competitive aspects, so for example the Dragon type wouldn't need to be a 600 BST powerhouse and the Bug type wouldn't need to be a steaming pile of garbage.
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 18:17:22 GMT
Honestly it could end up being a pokebattle mod, I mean it's not like this will be complete up to coding within a month. So we'll see how that goes.
But yeah that's a good bunch of fundamentals.. however we're going to have Pokémon of every type so surely it doesn't really matter? The only thing that's got something specific attached is the starters, with their abilities and narrow base stat range.
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