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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 2:37:27 GMT
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 3:56:25 GMT
Air Balloon Expert Belt Assult Vest(physical clone?) Choice Band Choice Specs Red Card Toxic/Burn Orb Weakness Policy Black Sludge My view: Air Balloon - actually pretty cool to keep, although it sees rare use, having something that marginally weakens the sheer utility of Rock+Ground coverage is always cool. It's pretty unique and nice. Expert Belt - I think it's a cool addition that takes some skill to use properly. Looking at when it would be used and how it overlaps with other items, I think that it would mainly see use on stallbreaking type sets, mixed sets, etc. stuff where 3-4 coverage options are run and hitting hard with the STAB options isn't as important as pressuring things hit super effectively as much. So that probably relegates a lot of items to seeing use only on mainly sweepers - which often run leftovers instead anyway (I'd think). So I'm unsure about keeping it but it is a cool item for sure. AV - I'm not sure, it could be cool to keep, although in my experience it's not usually a very useful item in general. Making a physical defense equivalent does make sense if we include AV. CB and specs - ADV had just one of these and it was pretty interesting like that. I feel weird including one and not the other, but I wonder if, if we have neither, do we have the means to break through things, and if we have both, are some things too powerful? I'm edging towards having both though personally. Red Card - Not sure. Toxic / Burn Orb - If we keep these it's a buff to Guts users and the like. Is that too much? Hard to say, but in my experience guts is still a pretty cool ability in metas without these items, as status is always cool. I think we shouldn't keep them, for this reason. And it does mean that if Poison Heal ends up as an included ability then it takes more skill to make use of it! Weakness Policy - I think no. With lower offensive power this becomes too easy to activate. Black Sludge - If we include trick, include this. If we don't include trick, then maybe include it just because it feels nice to run something other than leftovers to do leftover's job.
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 4:28:28 GMT
Personal Opinion of unconfirmed items:
Add Air Balloon - Cool little niche item, not broken in any way, no real reason not to keep it. Expert Belt - I feel like with the lack or any type-plate, equivalent item or life orb we need some kind of wall breaking item, this is one that I feel is more competitive then the others.
Learning Away From Weakness Policy - Just hate the this item lol, punishes a player for picking the right attack. Black Sludge - Like just use leftover, slight difference if trick is a thing so not 100% opposed to it. Assult Vest(physical clone?) - We're planning on making the stat boost berries stronger, this could be a distraction to that.
Split Choice Band/Choice Specs - I think you have to go none or neither. Again no life orb or 1.2 boosting items.
Wait for now Red Card - I feel like we could do cool things with this but we need mons first. Toxic/Burn Orb - I think we should wait and see how prevalent trick, guts, and poison heal are.
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 11:10:55 GMT
Personal Opinion of unconfirmed items:
Add Air Balloon - Cool little niche item, not broken in any way, no real reason not to keep it. Expert Belt - I feel like with the lack or any type-plate, equivalent item or life orb we need some kind of wall breaking item, this is one that I feel is more competitive then the others.
Learning Away From Weakness Policy - Just hate the this item lol, punishes a player for picking the right attack. Black Sludge - Like just use leftover, slight difference if trick is a thing so not 100% opposed to it. Assult Vest(physical clone?) - We're planning on making the stat boost berries stronger, this could be a distraction to that.
Split Choice Band/Choice Specs - I think you have to go none or neither. Again no life orb or 1.2 boosting items.
Wait for now Red Card - I feel like we could do cool things with this but we need mons first. Toxic/Burn Orb - I think we should wait and see how prevalent trick, guts, and poison heal are.
i mean we should have the 1.2x items, just not the plates cos blackglasses and soft sand are cooler
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 14:02:08 GMT
i mean we should have the 1.2x items, just not the plates cos blackglasses and soft sand are cooler Okay that seems fine since it only boosts STAB, should I add them to the maybe list or confirmed?
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Post by Enigami on Mar 7, 2016 14:48:51 GMT
In Discussion:
Air Balloon - Add, for reasons K Legacy brought up.
Expert Belt - Add, much more fair than Life Orb since it requires Super Effective hits to apply and even then only adds 1.2x boost like other boosting items.
1.2x Type Boost items - Add
Black Sludge - Add, at worst it's a fun alternative of Leftovers.
Choice Band - Add
Choice Scarf - I think some variant of Scarf is fine if restricted to NFEs (would have little relevance for BAM's main meta, but NFEs like Snover are really helped by it and NFEs would naturally have limited BST to keep them from being a major threat), otherwise I'd prefer no scarf. I like not having to guess whether my Pokemon outspeeds when its faster than my opponent's max speed but below 1.5x max speed.
Assault Vest & Physical Clone - I somewhat agree with K Legacy... perhaps making them choice lock instead would make it require more thought and not overshadow berries?
Red Card & Status Orbs - Wait, for same reasoning as K Legacy.
Choice Specs - Don't want
Weakness Policy - Don't want, same reasoning as K Legacy.
New Things:
Focus Sash - I like some of the strategies it brings, and with it 'breaking' from ANY damage it isn't terribly strong as an item. Perhaps to reduce surprise factor (and make it compete less with resist berries), it could be revealed like Air Balloon.
Lagging Tail - With GSC phazing mechanics, this could actually be a very interesting item to consider for your own phazer as it guarantees phazing when faster, but at the same time makes itself more vulnerable by always moving last.
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Post by K Legacy on Mar 7, 2016 16:45:53 GMT
In Discussion: Air Balloon - Add, for reasons K Legacy brought up. Expert Belt - Add, much more fair than Life Orb since it requires Super Effective hits to apply and even then only adds 1.2x boost like other boosting items. 1.2x Type Boost items - Add Black Sludge - Add, at worst it's a fun alternative of Leftovers. Choice Band - Add Choice Scarf - I think some variant of Scarf is fine if restricted to NFEs (would have little relevance for BAM's main meta, but NFEs like Snover are really helped by it and NFEs would naturally have limited BST to keep them from being a major threat), otherwise I'd prefer no scarf. I like not having to guess whether my Pokemon outspeeds when its faster than my opponent's max speed but below 1.5x max speed. Assault Vest & Physical Clone - I somewhat agree with K Legacy... perhaps making them choice lock instead would make it require more thought and not overshadow berries? Red Card & Status Orbs - Wait, for same reasoning as K Legacy. Choice Specs - Don't want Weakness Policy - Don't want, same reasoning as K Legacy. New Things: Focus Sash - I like some of the strategies it brings, and with it 'breaking' from ANY damage it isn't terribly strong as an item. Perhaps to reduce surprise factor (and make it compete less with resist berries), it could be revealed like Air Balloon. Lagging Tail - With GSC phazing mechanics, this could actually be a very interesting item to consider for your own phazer as it guarantees phazing when faster, but at the same time makes itself more vulnerable by always moving last. Removed Weakness policy from discussion list since it seams nobody wants it. Why just band and no specs? Piex didn't want sash or scarf but I honestly want to here more about why he isn't in favor of sash. Lagging tail is actually kinda cool but I don't know which phasing mechanics we are using, I'll add it as a discussion topic in projectbam.proboards.com/thread/433/mechanics-thread. The choice lock on assault vest is a cool prospective nerf.
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Post by Enigami on Mar 7, 2016 17:37:04 GMT
"Whirlwind and moves with the same secondary effect operate under Generation 2 mechanics. This means that the move must be used last for the secondary effect to work." <-- From DA's post in the mechanics thread. That's GSC phazing mechanics.
My reasoning for Band but not Specs is that Band has more things to check it in standard Pokemon because of contact activated abilities and items (Gooey, Rocky Helment, etc), Defense boosting is usually more widespread than Special Defense boosting, Intimidate exists, and so on. Also, only having to worry about 1.5x power from one offensive type eases teambuilding a bit. There's also interesting situations when you have Specially-biased mixed attackers, because Band is boosting the weaker attack stat but can still be viable. For example, Moltres in ADV 2U can make use of Choice Band despite being primarily a Special-attacker. Plus I like how ADV played with just Band. You could add more abilities/items/things to deal with Special/non-Contact attacks I guess, but I'd prefer to just stick with Band.
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 17:37:39 GMT
i mean we should have the 1.2x items, just not the plates cos blackglasses and soft sand are cooler Okay that seems fine since it only boosts STAB, should I add them to the maybe list or confirmed? Confirmed Also: Lagging Tail - Add Enigami - why do you want band and not specs? Note that the only determining difference between the two right now is the moves selection (and stuff like concealed power meaning we effectively ONLY have physical hidden power is a big deal to this perhaps) - so why one over the other? Sash - it actually would make the game more offensive, it would be a big enabled to suicide lead hyper offense and I genuinely don't see the use outside of that except for magic guard mons. The idea of it being revealed means that maybe IF we have a mon that functions sorta like gen 5 alakazam then I could consider having one on the interesting condition suggested that it be revealed. Also K Legacy nice post edit but it was already inclided literally just above where you edited it in (and below the type chart) quote: Whirlwind and moves with the same secondary effect operate under Generation 2 mechanics. This means that the move must be used last for the secondary effect to work.
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 7, 2016 17:40:51 GMT
Also can we move Rocky Helmet to under discusison I'm not completely sure if I want it tbh.
And whilst Enigami answered the question before I had asked it, with the things I used to qualify the question maybe Enigami will reconsider his answer.
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Post by Enigami on Mar 7, 2016 18:02:36 GMT
After some discussion on Skype, Disaster Area, K Legacy and I felt a Choice Item that provides a 1.3x boost (we've dubbed it Choice Crown) to both stats would be more desirable than Band or Specs.
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Post by Disaster Area on Mar 20, 2016 17:58:54 GMT
Not sure if we should maybe remove custap. Thoughts on it? Endure+Custap is kinda eugh but idk.
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Post by Enigami on Mar 20, 2016 23:52:48 GMT
I'm in favor of removing it for now. Its mostly only viable on Sturdy mons, and we don't know if we are going to have any or even if we want that as an option for them.
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Post by Disaster Area on Oct 26, 2016 14:10:27 GMT
to add: expert belt / wise glasses / muscle band (thanks ninjax)
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